That's All - Just tell me Why - How can you successfully complete a STONE-COLD Bluff if your opponent is sitting there with a PPA calculator telling him he has the best winning percentage even though HE HAS a poor hand also. It may not tell you the EXACT hand of your opponent, but seems to me it gives you a pretty good IDEA. If you try to trap, they won't raise you as they already know they are presently beaten, if you raise that's when they will fold as they know they most likely are or will-be beaten. So how is that NOT CHEATING against those without the calculator. SHOWING and Teaching POT ODDS are one thing, but telling your winning percentage chances based on your opponents hands is PURE cheating.
Poker Players Alliance Forums » Poker Players Alliance
TELL Me Why PPA Calculator is NOT Cheating
(11 posts)-
Posted 9 months ago #
-
It's not cheating because it doesn't know your opponents' hands. Rather, it's doing what poker players should already know how to do -- playing based on their odds.
Posted 9 months ago # -
While for totally different reasons, you are correct. The PPA calculator is cheating. I know of no casino that will allow you to use such a device at the poker table. You would be stopped at a minimum, thrown out of the casino if you persisted, and arrested as a final resort. (Using a calculator is probably also illegal in a casino.)
Unlike a casino, there is no practical way for the online card room to detect or prevent you from using the calculator.
You appear to be wrong in that you think the calculator has some sort of knowledge of the other guy's cards, which it apparently doesn't. In any event, the calculator does not use knowledge of the other guy's cards to give you probabilities.
Just to note the calculator could only have knowledge of the other player's cards if the other guy was running the same program and the program were, by design, networked.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Originally posted by Big Jim Slade v2.0
While for totally different reasons, you are correct. The PPA calculator is cheating. I know of no casino that will allow you to use such a device at the poker table. You would be stopped at a minimum, thrown out of the casino if you persisted, and arrested as a final resort. (Using a calculator is probably also illegal in a casino.)Unlike a casino, there is no practical way for the online card room to detect or prevent you from using the calculator.
I guess I'd say that's why it's not cheating. One may not use any calculator at a B&M table because it's against their rules (similarly, I can't imagine what would happen to someone who tried to use it at a home game). That way, all the players are on a level playing field.
Likewise, sites provide a list of permissible software. It also serves to keep everyone on the same playing field. The PPA calculator, PokerAce, PokerTracker, and many other programs are perfectly permissible for the online game.
Posted 9 months ago # -
A question of splitting hairs, but an interesting discussion.
As I understand it, The Engineer suggests that using a poker calculator in a Brick 'n Mortar casino is not cheating, just not allowed. But it is not cheating.
On the other hand, I suggest it is not allowed because it is cheating.
The Engineer suggests rules are based on creating a "level playing field." I suppose if that were true then we'd be handicapped, like in golf.
At the least, using a poker calculator is an example of Advantage Play. I'd still suggest it is cheating.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Big Jim,
True, it's just semantics.
The short answer is that a poker calculator is cheating in a land-based game because it's not permitted. As the player using one would likely conceal it, he would have an unfair advantage. Online games, OTOH, do permit use of poker calculators. As they are clearly permitted, use is not cheating, by definition. After all, everyone playing can use one if they so choose, so no one has an advantage.
Posted 9 months ago # -
I agree with you BIG JIM, morally, it is CHEATING, even on-line.
Posted 9 months ago # -
I do respect the great body of knowledge The Engineer possesses. But I won't accept the response of a calculator "is cheating" because it "is not allowed". I have to ask the underlying reasoning. Why are calculators banned in casinos?
I suspect the underlying reason for calculators being banned has to do with a belief they can be used to obtain an unfair advantage, i.e. cheating. So I'm suggesting the reason calculators are banned in casinos is because they can be used to cheat (in the eyes of the casino managers).
Not the other way around, as The Engineer would suggest, that they are cheating because the calculator is not permitted.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Thanks for the compliment Big Jim.
Here's my question: If every player has access to the calculator and every player knows calculators are permitted, who's being cheated? Where's the unfair advantage? If I had a home game and specifically allowed calculators, would it be cheating for players to use them? That's what sites that permit calculators have done.
Calculators aren't permitted in casinos because of an instance where a blackjack card counting team used hidden calculators in their play. The counters were caught, but found not guilty (there was no law regarding electronic aids at the time). The law was subsequently changed to make such tools unlawful by players in casinos.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Originally posted by: KARAOKEBUTCH
I agree with you BIG JIM, morally, it is CHEATING, even on-line.But if the game you're playing permits calculators, aren't you putting yourself at a disadvantage if you don't use the permitted tools?
Posted 9 months ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.